»LeVine: To start with the obvious, What's a nice Jewish boy like you doing in a place like Ramallah?
Shapiro: I arrived in Jerusalem in September 1999 to work for Seeds of Peace, an American nonprofit organization dedicated to working with youth in regions of conflict to promote peaceful coexistence. I was director of their Center for Coexistence in Jerusalem. As the conflict escalated and Israel began using F-16s, I decided that as an American, I needed to start protesting the use of American weapons against Palestinians, so I got involved with the activities of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM)-especially humanitarian activities and protests against American involvement and support of the increasing Israeli escalation. Last December, I left Seeds and became a full-time volunteer coordinator for ISM to work with Palestinians in struggling against the Occupation-removing roadblocks, replanting trees, rebuilding homes, marching through checkpoints.
When the invasion began we happened to have seventy to eighty international activists in Ramallah who had come for ISM's April Campaign Against Occupation. We were prepared to help in any way we could. We got calls from medical relief people saying they were being shot at by Israelis and they needed help to get through to the wounded, and I volunteered to go in one of the ambulances picking up wounded, delivering medicines, taking pregnant women to hospitals. Towards the end of the day I received a phone call from the presidential compound in Ramallah that critically wounded people were inside and that any ambulance that came near was being shot at, so we found a Palestinian doctor and went over to the compound. We were shot at as we got there but I got on loudspeaker and spoke to the soldiers in English. After twenty minutes, I got out and stood in front of the tanks, and after another three hours I got access to the compound. Inside there were two critically wounded people and we got them out, but I stayed behind to help the doctor treat wounded people, expecting the ambulance to come back and get me. However, a couple of hours later, my friend and colleague Caiomhe Butterly, an Irish citizen, came back inside and said that soldiers had arrested everyone in the ambulance and had impounded it-so we were stuck there.«

»LeVine: What do you think happened in Jenin? Shapiro: I think the notion of "massacre" as a term is not useful; it is too vague and could be used to mean only a few or many people. What is undeniable and what I saw was the result of the army completely flattening a wide swath of land with many homes-people who are still alive have no place to live now. Some were buried alive underneath rubble and aid organizations were prevented from going in to help them. People were forced to hide under the rubble of their homes to avoid Israeli attacks, and Apache helicopter attacks were launched in places other than the direct firing zone.
Perhaps some of the fighting was legitimate counter-terrorism, but some was clearly not. That's why we need an investigation, to learn what really happened. In fact, Israeli complaints that there was heavy fighting in Jenin and a great loss of soldiers displays arrogance-what did they expect? To have their army march into a Palestinian city and have the inhabitants just let them march in? In other places around the world defending your home is considered heroic resistance, here it's termed terrorism.«

»LeVine: Why has it been so hard for Palestinians to build a mass nonviolent movement against the Occupation even though violence has so clearly failed to win them anything? Is it just, as right-wingers here and in Israel claim, because they are hate-filled?
Shapiro: I would say first of all that Palestinians tell me all the time that everyday existence is by definition nonviolent existence. You have to imagine going to check points and dealing with the violence, brutality, and humiliation they face all the time-pushing, shoving, firing into the air. Just making it through checkpoints without violence is a form of nonviolent resistance. So we must broaden the scope of analysis to explore and explain how Palestinians respond to the violence of everyday life directed against them systematically by Israel.
But that said, it's true that there isn't a broad acceptance of or participation in strategic nonviolence because there is no popular leadership willing to commit to this strategy and use it, and also because of the extreme amount of lethal force they face as a society, which makes such a strategy hard to win supporters for and to deploy. That's how we as internationals can help-because when Palestinians march alone they get shot; when we march with them, carrying signs in English, tape recorders and video cameras, etc., Israelis can't respond as violently. They might use tear gas or stun grenades and fire into the air, but they won't fire directly into the crowd. And by our participation we bring more attention to what's going on because the media will cover when foreigners march with Palestinians, but not when they go by themselves.«

»LeVine: Some people say we need to cut off aid to Israel. But Congress repeatedly through resolutions and other strategies votes to give Israel, and now Sharon, a blank check to do whatever he wants in the Occupied Territories. Does it make sense to propose strategies that have no chance of working given the political climate in the United States? What kind of strategy do you see working? Is there anything more than just going and putting your body on the line?
Shapiro: I would say, don't worry about the elite level-just take direct action yourself. Thus the divestment campaign at UC Berkeley and Harvard, modeled on South Africa during Apartheid is key; or the campaign against the Caterpillar bulldozer company, where activists campaigned against the company's bulldozers being used to destroy homes and crops in Palestine, and appealed to them with evidence of how their image is being tainted. They've responded and asked for more information and will discuss how to deal with the fact that their machines are destroying Palestinian homes-this has wide repercussions. It doesn't necessarily take getting the U.S. government to act, if we can get companies to act first. «